The future of CAD without files?

by Oleg on July 27, 2011 · 33 comments

No files any more. Period. I hope I’ve got your attention. File system is one of the most stable paradigms for storing data for the last 20-25 years. However, here is the question – do we really need it? Take a look on the following quote from Wikipedia:

Programs do not necessarily require file names or directories to access data, and direct data access is possible by hardcoding programs to directly access data regions on a storage device. Similarly, directories or folders are technically unnecessary, and all data could be arranged in a flat-file manner, identifying data using some external locating method such as typed pages in a binder. Such a system would be extremely difficult for day-to-day management and organization of data by human users.

We use files almost everywhere. However, stop, for the moment. We actually are not using files on the web. The meaning of files changed when it comes to the web-like organization of things.

I was reading Alex Bowyer on O’Reilly Radar Blog – Why Files Need To Die? Take a moment of time and read that article. Make your opinion. How much of your everyday lifecycle is dependent on files and what is completely file-less. I found the following passage inspiring:

The file folder metaphor makes no sense in today’s world. Gone are the smoky 1970s offices where secretaries bustled around fetching armfuls of paperwork for their bosses, archiving cardboard files in dusty cabinets. Our lives have gone digital and our data zips around the world in seconds as we buy goods online or chat with distant relatives.

The complexity of folders and files these days is similar to paperwork in the example above. Alex is coming with the idea of streams and related information. I found it interesting since it actually eliminates the need for files. You are just browsing through the information.

CAD with No Files?

Now, let think about CAD/PLM world. The fundamentals of CAD and design systems are files. We use them to store assemblies, parts, drawings. In addition to that, we use them as a reference in many places. Do think “file” paradigm will live with CAD and other design systems forever? The movement of CAD vendors seems to me the obvious application of modern web principles to the world of design and engineering. The initial signals are here. CATIA V6 pushed the limits and eliminated files by connecting CATIA system directly to Enovia back-end. Autodesk cloud experiments with systems like AutoCAD WS made existence of files on the disc obsolete. PTC introduced Creo Apps. It will be interesting to see if PTC will come with the future idea of eliminating files.

What is my conclusion? I think the computing and information paradigms are shifting from file-oriented to data (and web) oriented. The initial signs are here. The speed of this movement is questionable. Manufacturing is slow changing environment and engineers are very reluctant to changes. Just my thoughts. What is your take on the future without files?

Best, Oleg

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Tagged as: Alex Bowyer, CAD, Cloud, Files, NoFiles, O'Reilly Radar, Web

  • http://twitter.com/bcourter Blake Courter

    CAD file management has always been a chore.  In MCAD, every time you send someone an assembly you need to tell them which file contains the top-level.  The file paradigm doesn't make much sense.  It also becomes the typical unit of versioning, which is not ideal.

    We've partially mitigated it at SpaceClaim by allowing users to keep their entire design in one files.  It's not perfect, but it we get great feedback from customers.  It's a more flexible paradigm than most MCAD systems allow.

    Ultimately, I hope that we will see systems that allow versioning on a document object basis for far greater flexibility and retention than current systems allow.

  • http://soliddna.wordpress.com/ Solid DNA

    Oleg

    This resemble to the relational database Microsoft promise to deliver for few years now ( see below 2003) but always fail. May be we are closer now that technology have evolve

    We should no more need to structure the data on the hard drive in the way we are use to think with a folder structure.

    Fat16 was replaced by Fat32

    Fat32 by NTFS ( who have 6 version http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C…

    NTFS should have been replace by…..WinFS with Vista

    “….Some previously announced features ( for Vista), such as WinFS were dropped or postponed….”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W…

    “…WinFS (short for Windows Future Storage)[1] is the code name for a cancelled[2] data storage and management system project based on relational databases, developed by Microsoft and first demonstrated in 2003 as an advanced storage subsystem for the Microsoft Windows operating system, designed for persistence and management of structured, semi-structured as well as unstructured data…..”

    Hope we will not have to wait another 10 years unless MS wanted us to paid for old ( very old) technology , but that is  another story

  • Sergio Molteni

    Apple iOS ^_^

  • Steve

    An ability for sharing the content with others, and having a data model that is understood by each consuming application may dictate the pace at which companies adopt a non-file-oriented structure for such data.

  • Jeff Sweeney

    PLM/PDM  systems are dissolving
    the [perceived] need for a folder structure, and users seem to like that.

    I am guessing in the CAD world, files will go away without
    the users really noticing. CAD companies will stop calling them files and call
    them parts. You will still need to go through a list of parts that you want to
    access  …a user really won’t care how
    the actual data is stored on the back end.

  • beyondplm

    Blake, I agree with you. CAD files created many problems when people trying to share or revision them. Combine the idea of a single file (like you mentioned about Spaceclaim) with an additional flexibility and granularity, and we will a dream data management solution for engineers. -Oleg

  • beyondplm

    I think, Microsoft was always good in innovation and not as strong on the execution level. So, maybe we will see a future version of WinFS in a coming ChromeOS or similar solution. Who knows?.. Thanks for your comments and insight. Best, Oleg

  • beyondplm

    Steve, I cannot agree more. In a context of CAD, this is probably a future evolution of PDM. On a more general level, this is can be a new file system as a result of merge between files and database solutions. Thanks for your comments! Best, Oleg

  • beyondplm

    Jeff, Agree 100%. Future merge of CAD and PDM will dissolve the need for files. The potential migration to the cloud can speed up this process. People won't care about files anymore… Thanks for commenting! Best, Oleg

  • Evan Yares

    What are you talking about?  Files or file folders?

    They're both abstractions.  And the funny thing about abstractions is that they tend not to go away.

    I can envision the day when files, and file folders, are merely database queries…  Oops… systems like the Pick Operating System http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P… have been doing that since 1965.

  • http://www.rentapen.com Straley

    I like to get my mind around something.  The virtual files were created is those in my generation could understand them and feel safe with them.  A cloud to me is misty and I can't get my hands on it.  That translates to not getting my hands on the file that I know is out there.

    However, I am old and born and raised before home computers. 

    Those of the next generation grew up in the virtual world.  They will embrace this new technology.  Since 40% of the engineering work force are going to be retiring within 8 years, that leaves a large workforce that grew up in the virtual world and depended less on paper folders for their data.

  • Sriram

    Hi Oleg

    I think this is one area which would be really make some big change from CAD side rather than PLMPDM side as they will still be treated as part. But moving CAD to data would provide lot many oppurtunity with respect to collaboration like real time concurrent engineering collaboration with multipe users which is highly constrained with the file system at the moment. It would also allow CAD products could move to next level from 3D….(say 4D). with possbility of tagging addtional info with the cad model and which can be easily rolled over.

    As I understand several CAD vendors are already pushing away from file system similar to CATIA.. DS is also planning SW to move to the data (DB) oriented solution soon.

    But as you have mentioned still in many cases the output to manufacture is still transfered and used as drawings files (other than few industries).

    So really looking forward to see where we are up to on this….

  • kaheniem

    Agaim a good post and as I've commented before on your post about storing data in PDF-files, I think that file-based collaboration is not going to work.

    I takes a long time before we can go to a 100 % file-free computing. The guy who is installing those databases to the cloud probably runs the installation from files. The guys who create the “semantic, high-level fabric of total interoperability” probably play with files… We could make computing almost totally file-free for the end users with the technologies available today but I think most vendors still lack the vision of how it should be done. Do the future present us with a giant, web-based whiteboard that manages all information and create small, relationship based solar systems like music-map does (http://www.music-map.com/)? I don't know but I'm eagerly waiting who's the first to kill files in the PDM/PLM world.

  • Michael Reitman

    I feel some confusion in this entire discussion thread.
    Yes, CAD user will be happy not care how the data is stored and managed on the back end, In this sense the files (those data entities that you had to manage just for accessing design) can go. But “no files any more” is exaggeration. The user does not care whether it is file, or package, or portable database – they will always force vendors to provide option to “export” and have standalone named data entity (is .docx a file or a package? who cares). Like internet will always have option to download docs, ebooks, audiobooks, etc. Attempts to hide those “data entities” inside apps, like in iPad OS, immediately trigger solutions like DropBox to allow “manual data manipulation” through back door…

    For PLM vendors it would be “wet dream”, of course, to force the users accessing and manipulating data ONLY via PLM system, no files any more. Complete slavery, full dependency on one vendor. Beautiful.
    But, imo, this dream will not come true not for technological but social reasons – the users will not agree to pass complete control to “big brother” without ability to have their data manipulated manually, if wanted. (Again, it is not about narrow meaning of files but more about “design packages”)

  • Michael Reitman

    Blake, this idea of saving / sending assembly as one file / package may be useful in some specific workflows (Wildfire has been having this option for years), But word “flexible” does not seem to fit here :-)
    You cannot say that one file is more flexible than many files. It is more convenient sometimes.
    One file is good when assembly is done by one designer, or is sent to one reviewer, illustrator, etc.
    If you have even two people working on different portions of assembly, I am not sure one file is helpful. And what if there is dozen designers working concurrently? Think about dozen people editing same word doc simultaneously. And this is order of magnitude less complexity…

  • beyondplm

    Michael, It is interesting how every conversation in CAD/PLM world ends with the issue of the “vendor control”. The control over the file format is deep in the blood in this industry. My main point was in the modern information paradigm, the paradigm that we call “file” will be probably obsolete very soon. Therefore, my question is what CAD vendors are thinking about the future paradigm. CATIA V6 proposal to use Enovia V6 backend is one I can see. However, the problem of openness you figured (your example with DropBox) will hit Dassault. You probably had a chance to read my – PLM and New Openness (http://beyondplm.com/2011/07/2… few days ago. So, in this case, I'd prefer your “Internet” case. The example made by Blake about the ability of Spaceclaim to keep all data in a single XML file is actually closer to the “internet” way to think about this problem. Just my opinion, of course. Best, Oleg

  • beyondplm

    Kaheniem, thanks for commenting. Yes, I agree, it will take some time to dissolve “files”. However, it should come as a collaborative effect of work between multiple vendors. I'd expect CAD vendors to come with the technology that will help to dissolve files into streams that can work using internet infrastructure. For the moment, it might be a dream, but 2-3 years from today it can be a reality. Best,Oleg

  • beyondplm

    Sriram, thanks for commenting. Yes, CAD vendors are working on how to apply new technologies in the way system store and maintain data (including the ability to collaborate seamlessly). I don't see how CAD will drop “file” story for short term.. Just my opinion. Best, Oleg

  • beyondplm

    Evan, you are right about abstractions. They live with people generation. I can see a new generation of people editing documents in Google Doc and not saving files using Word and Excel. Do you think the same change will come to CAD users too? Thanks for your comments! Best, Oleg

  • beyondplm

    Straley, I agree with you. Changes are coming with a new generation of people. Those that using Google Apps and not saving files in Microsoft Excels. Just my thoughts, of course :) . Best,Oleg

  • beyondplm

    Blake, Michael, I'd say the additional granularity can be helpful in one XML file abstraction. This is something like reference to another XML? AutoCAD is doing it for decades – BLOCKs and XREFs… Did I miss something? Thanks, Oleg

  • kaheniem

    “However, it should come as a collaborative effect of work between multiple vendors.”

    There's the problem. I see that we need a new, independent player to create & maintain the fabric and sell the idea & API (or whatever they call it then) to the Vendors. I'm pessimistic about large Vendors actually working together rather than against each other :) They need a middle-man.

  • beyondplm

    The collaboration between CAD vendors wasn't perfect in the past. It will be interesting if the future of CAD/Cloud will open up a competition like Google vs. Facebook. Middle-man is a problem in my view. All companies that were in the business of “integration” eventually died or got acquired. In my view, introducing something like http://schema.org/ can be a reasonable first step in the right direction. Just my opinion. Best, Oleg

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  • Doug Norton

    I kind of think that you are pushing the envelope quite a bit.  For anyone working for clients, there has to be a structure for keeping the work separate, and to be able to get the information back and forth to the client.  Whether or not the separately stored information is called a file or not is really just semantics. A bundle of information that is separate from all other information is a “file”.  Lots of systems, Inventor for example, store projects in a data base, and each record is a “file”.  You can take one file and send it to a client, or convert it to a PDF or piece of paper.  But it is discrete, and is a set of information that must be kept bundled together somehow.

    I doubt very much that we will be seeing the end of files anytime in the foreseeable future.  As the file said “the reports of my death have been very much exaggerated.”

  • beyondplm

    Doug, thanks for your comments and insight sharing. I agree with your view on an envelope keeping information. That was a file for many years. However, I can see today a significant shift in file paradigms towards cloud-based storages. It will look similar, but works differently. Think about Google Docs, Autodesk Cloud Docs etc… Just my opinion, of course. Oleg

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